Many people who live in the DC area aren't from this area or even the east coast. People come here as students, move with their families due to a new job, relocate because of a better job or move away from cities with a higher cost of living. This isn't a thread to put down DC but to show how others see DC from a different perspective.

While living here I noticed things I wouldn't find in the San Francisco bay area. Some examples include stop signs and yield signs on the highway, driving backwards on the highway to avoid traffic, driving on the curb to bypass all the traffic on the road that's not an actual lane to drive on, and not yielding to pedestrians (there are kids and mothers that are trying to cross the street).

The places I've in so far don't have any doorbells and I'm not used to having no lights installed in the bedroom or living room. Aside from the rude people, attitude, and poor service in most restaurants, what else has anyone noticed while living here.

I've never noticed anyone driving backwards on the highway, that's weird. I do hate it when people are honking behind me when I'm making a right turn, even though there are pedestrians. It's like they want me to just run people over so they can be on their way. That's weird too.

I think you are lucky to be in DC rather than in Boston or NYC. People in the east coast cities are more goal or "N-Ach" oriented. These cities are extremely transient as there are industries that provide services or jobs that require transient behaviour (i.e. students, interns, residents, political assistants, financial and entertainment assistants, consultants, contractors etc.). People aren't intentionally rude, it is just that they have so much going on that it they may appear to be so.

I think the service here is decent - though not extraordinary. Of course I have had my share of poor service - but I share my thoughts with the management. I have been to many SF restaurants and no doubt the food is unbelievable but none of the experiences involving good  service stick out in my mind.

I agree that not stopping for pedestrians is not cool but at the same time, west coast police handing out jaywalking tickets  when the streets are deserted.

Have you ever been hit with a water balloon while biking? That happens here too. Damn kids.

Mihir,

I've been to NYC on several occasions and even though there may be larger crowds on the streets and subways, the people were a lot nicer overall. I had someone who overheard my conversation tell me that I got on the wrong train and more people were willing to have a conversation with you.

In DC, I had the bus driver assault me by taking out an expired weekly bus pass out of my wallet because I forgot to change it out when I showed it to him. I also had another bus driver tell me not to drink on the bus when I was just carrying my food. I saw a passenger tell a young lady sitting near the front with grocery bags to get out of his seat when there was plenty of seats available.

At the mall, there was a woman complaining about not having her shoe size in stock and called the sales associate a, B**** because the store didn't have it in stock.

Regarding the service in restaurants, I've noticed the servers were more attentive to people who didn't show a youthful appearance. In a few restaurants in SF, as a long time-customer you receive free food. I don't expect that type of service here but to just be treated the same as other people.

I've had people tell me that DC is diverse but for such a "diverse" city I've encountered a couple of racists among them.

Wow, I may be living in a bubble, but I don't think people are any ruder here than they are anywhere else. Wherever you turn there is always going to be someone who is impatient, unhappy with the world, rude and any other host of negative qualities. Maybe you just had the misfortune of running into more of them. There are also really kind, caring and helpful people here too. I could tell you lots of stories about random acts of kindness. Hold on...

I am still not sure if I like West coast more than East coast.

I think that is just strange luck. I have never witnessed anything like what you described while in DC or on the east coast for that matter. Where do you live? Are you sure you are not misinterpretting those happenings or their contexts?

Regarding the restaurants service, have you sampled enough experiences where older people blatantly get better service? Any good restaurant will take care of the regulars and not just in SF.

Remember, "diverse" doesn't mean not racist. I am a minority and I have not experienced any racism in DC since I have been here.

It's hard to misinterpret a bus driver, physically taking out your bus pass from your wallet, tearing it in half, and demanding that you never try that again. The same bus driver wouldn't pull that stunt on a middle aged person dressed in a business suit.

Just because you don't see these things, it doesn't mean they don't happen. I've heard of shootings all the time in DC but I've never seen one in person.

Hi Everyone, I just had to report this (after posting to this talk earlier today). I was out for a run tonight and went further than usual and got really thirsty. I walked into a Starbuck's in Ballston and, since I didn't have any money on me, asked if I could have some tap water. She told me to go ahead and grab one of the bottled waters instead and told me to have a great night. See? It happens.

Strange luck I guess. I couldn't agree more, just because one doesn't witness something, it doesn't mean that it doesn't happen. So it's not just DC then, it could be anywhere.

well I never noticed any of what you are talking about BUT two you have that we don't have in SF is

1)  Green - every time I fly in it surprises me...Green lush

2)  well maintained roads, especially Maryland, sweet

Yeah! One of the things I love about D.C. is how green it is.

The green everywhere is nice but unfortunately it's a hot spot for people with allergies.

This is off topic now but does anyone know why in VA you have to pay property taxes on your car every year? I don't own a car but I can't imagine having to pay taxes every year on a car (especially ones that are completely paid off).

um, because the state wants your money?

know what i find strangest of all? why isn't sweet tea a common staple in N. Va???? we're still south of the mason dixon line dammit

Doesn't all that car tax go to improving the highways or something? That's what a N. Va. resident/friend of mine said in the tax's defense. I feel like D.C. needs more BBQ pits. The kind that are outside, in a yard.

DC is a transient center.

Stephanie, find a chick-fil-a. They always have sweet tea.

I moved to Alexandria about three months ago from the SF bay area. I've noticed all the things you mentioned, especially regarding traffic. I've also noticed that people actually get out of their cars in the middle of traffic to chew someone out. In California, you'd get the finger or give the finger and you'd move on. The big rigs here seem to be out of control, they'll stop at nothing to run you off the road.  Also, police out here wear those funny wide brimmed hats, like what you see on South Park, haha. I guess it's the whole state trooper thing, but you definately don't see that in California. Hmm, the personal property tax, yeah, I was actually thinking about that earlier tonight and it really pisses me off. I guess my only options to avoid it are (1) move out of state, again (2) move to a new county and hope to get a small break (3) get rid of the car or get a piece of crap which will ultimately be worth $500 or less. Hmm, moving out of state is looking nice right now. With the two cars I have, it might be cheaper to break my lease rather than pay the tax. Also, the water here tastes bad, it tastes like chlorine. The things I like that are different from Ca would definately be the lush green trees. I can't get enough of it all, it's really pretty, but then there are those weird bugs which sound like crickets on crack. What are those things? I like all the old architecture and charm of many of the neighborhoods and the history of course. The accesibility to NYC is awesome. I like that i'm able to catch the Vamoose in DC!! Other than that, i'm finding it hard to adjust. I've already been called a white b*tch, which i've never experienced, plus i'm not even a b*tch. I know racism exists everywhere and that this was an isolated incident, but it still bothered me. I keep meeting people in Virginia who tell me that I should avoid people from Maryland at all costs simply because Virginians aren't supposed to like people from Maryland. So far, more than a dozen people have backed up that idea and random people too, that i've met out and about. I've also met people who've made a big stink about the south, saying something like "you're in the south now, be proud." Then another person will tell me that's not realy true since most people in NoVa have moved beyond the whole southern ideology and that you have to travel further south in Virginia to really be able to absorb the southern way of life. I don't know, i'm just a girl from California, it's just different out here. I don't feel like I have any sort of identity here, but i'm determined to not give up. There's got to be some great things about living back here.

Sorry, I should have broken that up into paragraphs. Durrrr. :-(

Come on, Californians are tougher than that!! Shit happens! You just got learn to ignore it and move on to the things that matter. I can understand that the car tax may be expensive, but I haven't had a car in two years and I could really use one. The public transportation here is excellent (and better for the environment). Sorry to say this but the public transportation in CA is bad!

I have been lucky to have lived all over and I have been called all sorts of colorful names relating to my ethnicity - yes, even in California. I don't think that the experiences written in the conversation are a DC thing, but a personality trait of the offending person. Fuck 'em! (Pardon me language). As for those who tell you about VA/MD thing - that's just stupid. Where are you meeting all of these people?? I have never heard anything like it.
Anyway, meet up with us cool DC-ites at Nooshi tomorrow. You'll have a great time and want to stick around DC!

And EXCUSE my grammer on here but I don't type too well when i'm ANGRY!!!!!!!

PS: I'll also have you know anyone who was willing to talk to me or who I worked with or worked for agreed that the DC area is NOT the friendliest place and they also like SF better cuz people didn't walk around there as if they had a stick up thier butts! Buisness suit or not they will never earn any of my respect for how they've talked down to both my husband and myself.

PPS: Don't take it too personally, I'm sure you were just trying to make your OWN point but at the same time we're trying to make a point as well and we would like that point to be respected.

Oh and I almost forgot I can't even mention how many times a car has tried to run me over cuz they wouldn't give me the RIGHT OF WAY even though I was in a cross walk and they clearly saw me. There are no stop lights or signs on our street even though it's a busy road and you could even start walking and they wouldn't slow down. I don't know how these people passed drivers ed because it clearly says in the manual that all PEDESTRIANS have the right of way and that if you don't follow that law you will be fined. It wasn't optional of them to not stop for me. So you can imagine how many buses I've missed trying to cross the street to get to work and then end up being late cuz no one had the compassion to stop for a girl obviously dressed for work.

Your husband's postings made it our business. My intentions were good and no one was taking down to you, making you wrong, or trying to convince you of anything. Your response makes you no better than all the people you insult. I also know that San Franciscans (or most people anywhere) would be ashamed of your response as they exhibit class and maintain their self - respect.

Mihir,

I'll have to disagree with you again on the public transportation. The bus and metro here are much cleaner here compared to the ones in other cities. I haven't seen any graffiti on the metro and not as much trash. They do run on time most of the time and the trip planner has helped me get around the DC area. The bus I take comes every 15 minutes on the weekdays and more often during rush hour but start running less often on weekends, especially on Sundays. I'll have buses take anywhere from 30 min to an hour depending on which bus line I'll take. The buses/metro stop running sometime after midnight on weekdays and 3 AM on Fridays and Saturdays.

In comparison, San Francisco's Muni system runs 24/7 on certain major bus lines such as the 38. The 38 runs every 5-15 minutes and there's more space on the bus. You'll notice on the WMATA buses they're cramped and it's hard to walk down the aisle. There's also a lot of people that don't know how to utilize the back doors. People would sit near the back and take over a minute to walk out the front door. I had a bus driver tell me to wait for people walking out the front door. I've been using public transportation for over 15 years. If you're waiting over 10 seconds and can't see anyone walking towards the front than you're going to get on the bus.

Have you seen the older bus lines in San Francisco? The 31, 21, 5, and a few others run on the power lines. I don't know if they still do but that has to be better for the environment. This was before they started coming out with natural gas buses and hybrid buses.

I forgot to mention that you can purchase monthly bus passes as well as weekly bus passes. When I asked a WMATA employee, why monthly bus passes weren't available, they said it was to save money. It's a small inconvenience to buy them on a weekly basis or every 2 weeks. Paper doesn't cost them that much especially with all the funding they get from the federal government and local government around here. The rest is made up from the amount we pay in addition to IT companies like Lockheed Martin and Boeing contributing. They're started to get into the advertising business now which should generate some more revenue. NYC and SF's buses have advertising all over the bus while WMATA's first major advertisement was McDonalds.

Mihir,

When someone has a negative experience, it'll stick out like a sore thumb. We've had far more negative experiences than positive ones here. It takes a lot of positive ones to make up for one negative. I've already been living here for 2 years when my wife first moved out here. We've been here for over 4 years now and don't have any friends or family in this area. I don't mean the type that drink or go to clubs all the time. With no other support system here we're not happy in this area and I don't blame my wife for reacting the way she did. I've had a co-worker of mine tell me that he didn't like California at all and thought the people in this area were nicer. When I asked him what part of California (there is a big difference between Nor Cal and So Cal) he said around LA. I told him he wouldn't feel that way around SF but he said he would never go there and when I asked him is it because of the gay population he didn't answer me. My wife's co-worker thought only rich people could live in SF while another thought there weren't any ghetto people living there. At a Safeway, we bumped into another person that thought DC was the most expensive place to live. This is the ignorance we get from some of the people here. Granted it's not isolated to only this area but this is where I've experienced it. I know I'm not the only one out here. Recently, I had a co-worker of mine move back to her home state in Colorado because she couldn't handle this area anymore after living here for over 4 years.

Hey Krazy D.,

I totally understand that repetitive negative experiences can get you down. But my intentions were good or at least didn't deserve me to get physically threatened or get labeled as "Thick skulled", as your wife did. I am sorry you have had a bad experience out here.

Mihir S, it's not a matter of being tough. I'm just annoyed with it. I'm a tough chick, mentally, emotionally, and physically. Sometimes though, it's okay to feel a little discouraged in a new place. It's just been hard to adjust. Also, the people who've mentioned MD/VA being so called enemies were people with masters degrees, Ph. D's, young and old, of all races, ethnicites, incomes. I've heard this from the people that are usually considered to be intelligent, the ones that always get more credit. It would have been easy to say I heard it from the so called rednecks, out in the boondocks. If I was to say i'd heard all of the nonsense from rednecks, it would be easier to point the finger and say "well, what do you expect? ", but that's not the case. I guess it's just one of those things where I happened to meet a dozen or so really ignorant people. Because i'm new here, I like to ask the locals about life in the area and more times than not, the issue between MD and VA comes up. I have one of those DC guide books which is called 'Access-Washington DC. The only guide that leads you street by street into the heart of the city.'  It's good book and was recommended by all of the bookstore employees at the store it was purchased from. For a guide book, it's definately interesting.

On almost every page there are quotes or little bits of information about the area (md, va, dc), at the bottom of the page. On pg 184 (go buy the book and look it up, it's the ninth edition), there is something very interesting which refers to the clash betwen MD and VA.  It's a quote from Liza Mundy of the Washington Post Magazine. It says "Marylanders believe that Virginia is, at best, confusing and badly laid out ; at worst, redneck, backward, unforgivably homogeneous....Meanwhile, Virginians see Maryland as smug, yet also rootless, sprawling, untethered."

Really, this leads me to believe it has to do with some old rival from back in the day, but many people have said that those feelings have never diminished, the've always been around. I had dinner with one couple and all they talked about for a half hour was how ignorant and disgusting people from Maryland were and how I should take their advice and make sure to avoid them. One of them graduated from Georgetown, the other graduated from GWU. Both have masters degrees. One is a school teacher, the other is a lawyer. I just found it to be odd and really sad. So, i've started to ask around more and more. I'd like to know all I can about this stereotype, whether it's more serious or just some old, lame rivalry, that way I can piss off as many Virginians as I can, by having a big bbq in celebration of friends from Maryland. Yay.

Excuse my spelling and punctuation errors, as i'm usually a freak about that.

Krista C., my point was that people all over have certain opinions and are going to express. them. To me, many sound trivial so I listen to them and move on and do what I want to do. Afterall, this isn't a town with say a hundred people and that you should follow the norm or else risk being an outcast. Regardless of educational level, when I meet people with narrow minds, just like you described, I really don't care for them to be a part of my circle. I am a Red Sox fan and have plenty of Yankee fan friends and have no ill will towards Yankee fans. Anyway, if you want to meet the cool cats of DC, come to Nooshi for the Yelp event. Take care!

I only visited SF twice. I notice SF (N. Beach/Sunset areas) is the same as DC GT (Georgetown), GWU, and Catholic U.  They share one things as a college town.  Well, most students rent apartment in Rosslyn that is why I think the rent is sky high.  Pentagon City are mostly students too.

It also takes a lot more work to find authentic ethnic cuisine. There's a lot of restaurants here but you'll find them catering to Americans. It doesn't matter if it's Chinese, Italian, Mexican, etc. You'll find fries, subs, and other American food on some of these menus leaving me to question the entire area, although other cities besides SF, LA, and NYC are probably the same way. It's sad when you have a European restaurant completely change their menu and offer a new American menu replacing (mostly) everything they have.

Another thing I found distracting is when you have busineses using districts as the city for their address e.g. I've seen Rosslyn, VA or Ballston, VA instead of Arlington, VA. Someone new to this area might think they're seperate cities. I know NYC uses Brooklyn, NY instead of NY, NY but the districts in NYC are more well known that it's not an issue. Also, the South, North, NW, SW. NE, SE, etc. extensions of a street name is a nuisance. If I don't type in an address a certain way on WMATA's trip planner, I'll end up in a completely different city or it'll show no valid bus route to my destination.

I've been here for a little over a week now...and the jury is still out.  Explored over a dozen bars (and bar/restaurants) and still nothing.  

But I've always been blindly optimistic (and I seem to always have a good time no matter where I am) yet to be completely honest, I'm still hoping to find some excitement in this city.

I'm from the DC area and I freaking HATE it with a passion..For all of the reason that you guys have mentioned and more...You ever notice despite the fact there are alot of different nationalities living here the prevailing attitude remains in a "Stay with your own kind,It's safer that way" approach......There is too much taboo about intermingling here...Alot of my  female friends who were born here or have moved to DC from another part of the country maintain that they prefer dating caucasian men cos it's the socially acceptable and SAFE thing to do ...I personally think that is a load of bull but that is the way it is in The Nations Capital.....

Now There are alot of angry Black folks in DC in general.Alot of what you would call reverse racism . Even in the music community this attitude is so prevalent the brothers have the music scene on  lockdown. (And I thought music is not supposed to be about segregation.) From the angry metro employees to,the aggressive drivers,and the Black Supremacist practices it is evident that alot of African-American Folks in DC want some kind of REVENGE on the system and they will screw anyone including each other over to get it....

Further out into the burbs...Especially in Montgomery County MD the racist attitudes are more traditonal the farther you go out from DC the more you will run into some racist white/rich folks who despise the fact that more of us colored folks are finding our way into the lush green countryside and white picket fence suburbs..They dont necessarily hate but they despise the fact that "foreigners" are living next to them and they have to deal with it..Most of these folks are staunch conservatives (not that there is anything wrong with that!) who come from the "old school GOP" attitude which practices seperatism and a belief that that the "white" race is in serious danger of being overrun.....(Another big load of crap in my opinion.)

Most of the other problems with this place have been mentioned by my fellow writers on this subject......
I have spent alot of time in The Bay Area of CA....I do love that place alot....It has no racial overtones ,the people are the friendliest,the food rules,The women are beautiful and open minded,Being a musician there is alot better than being a musician in DC .Why? You ask..It's all about the music not about the color of your skin!!!

I love SF...but I like DC more because it doesn't smell like pee.  I used to live by Civic Center, and the escalators coming from the BART system were disgusting.  Actually, the Metro trumps BART anyday.

wow. I have to say I think everyone here is well within their rights to express their opinions regarding their personal experiences, and I don't doubt any of them. That being said, I'm not sure taking some experiences and extrapolating a whole regional personality on a population experiences is really valid.

I'm a native DCer, I grew up in DC and MD, I've lived in NYC and for the last decade made my home in the Bay Area. Every one of those places has good people and bad people, good and bad food, massively rude, obnoxious people and warm, fun and welcoming folks, etc. I despised the Bay Area for the first four years I lived here, despite the fact that's its the place both my parents grew up and where I had spent every summer of my life. I disliked the people-- thought they were alternatively flakey, rude or obnoxious, disliked the food snob culture when no one could make me a half way decent shwarma, despised the "culture" (oh my, you have to PAY for museums!) and absolutely assumed that every bad experience I had was once again proof the the bay was the armpit of america.

And then I got used to it.

Now there's things I really love about being in the Bay Area, and things I have learned that I dislike, just because they're not my thing. I also still yearn for lots of things about DC, even thought I'm there about every other month of the year. It's all what you're used to, and what you choose to accept. And if you decide you're hostile to a place you're never going to see the good in it, in the same way that another place can look like Shangri-La through rose colored glasses from 3,000 miles. Trust me, I did it for years.

My advice to folks wherever you are? Give your current digs a chance. Sure, the quadrants of DC might be a nuisance if you're typing, but they're there for a reason, and there's a lot of US history wrapped up in the city's design, should you choose to embrace it. And, yes, no question there's a TON of Mexican places in California that outshine just about all of DC's Mexican cuisine (proximity, not to mention CA's previous existence as part of Mexico, I dunno, MIGHT have something to do with that), but in DC you've got amazing middle eastern, Caribbean, and Mediterranean, should you choose to find it. As for the MD-VA hostility thing-- I hate to bring it up, but the Bay Area has it's very own version-- which is why so many of my SF co-workers ask me why I live "over there" in the East Bay, while my East Bay friends want to know how it is I survive having to go to the snotty ass "city" every day. Rivalries, of the local kind, are hardly unique to the DC Metro area.

Racism and classism are hardly unique to DC as well, and anyone who thinks of the Bay as a racial mecca hasn't taken a look at the breakdown of how public schools are funded, why the 925 and Marin are so isolated from the inner cities, and hasn't been listening to the rampant stereotypes that are regularly floated (and accepted) about Oakland, Richmond...

and other communities of color here.

So, in conclusion, I know what it feels like to be far from home, a fish out of water and like everything around you is so different that you hate it. But really, DC isn't a bad place, any more than SF, or NYC or Boston. It's  just different. And you may find that, in the end, it's not for you. Or, if you decide to be open to it, you might find things you like. Believe me, had you talked to me 10 years ago, I would have told you that San Francisco was the armpit of the universe.

Signing off in a pretty SF evening,

Catherine

I spent the last year in DC and found it to be incredibly friendly.  I go out of my way to meet people, and certainly don't expect to find everyone thinking I'm the bees knees, but I've made some great friends here, and love the friendly nature of people.  Do the drivers suck?  Of course they do - but as a wake up call, they all suck on the east coast; 10 of the bottom 12 states in a recent study on bad driving were east coast states, with only New Mexico and Hawaii breaking up the east coast party (and that's mainly because of the epidemic drink-driving problem in those two states).  Rhode Island was the worst, and I work there and can vouch for that, and DC was second worst.  How this makes it an unfriendly place to live though, I really don't know.  It just means you should take extra care when crossing the road (I find the drivers in Baltimore to be 10 times worse though!)

As has been pointed out in this thread in a wide variety of tones, this is just my personal opinion and experience of DC.  I love it, I miss it like crazy now I'm not there, and I miss my friends and the friendly people I used to meet there on a daily basis.

Just my two-penneths!

Very well said, Catherine!

Wow, i've never encountered the nastiness and awfulness of dc that many of the writers have mentioned on this thread.  And I've never heard anyone in VA dis MD.  I love living here, even though the drivers generally really suck... (my pet peeve is all those cars built without signals in them.... sheesh ;-), my second pet peeve are the people who left turn into the right lane's right-most lane at an intersection instead of staying in their lane and allowing oncoming traffic to make a right turn into that lane... kinda hard to describe without a pen and paper).  

Oh well, Five Guys makes everything worth it. Haha.

Maybe you need to be a foreigner to appreciate it!  I find the people in DC a thousand times friendlier than people in England, but then I know that will come as a huge shock to Americans who have been there, as I always here how sweet and friendly English people are.  

I think a lot of this has to do with the attitude you have when you come to a new city; I adore the States, have always loved DC, and felt so honored and privileged to be here, that maybe that rubs off on my actions and how people treat me.  If you've left a city you love, perhaps people can pick up on the negativity you exude by being in a city you don't want to be in.  I've brought this up in the past with Jeff S, who is a huge Chicago-phile, to the point where I assume he hates everything DC.  In fact, I don't think he does, he just really loves Chicago, and hence there is an underlying resentment of DC for being the city keeping him away from where he'd prefer to be.

I don't have that problem here, as I really despised everything about the UK, and loved everything about the States and DC, so I wasn't resenting it in any way - this also probably explains why I think most people in England are rude, because I resented being there.  One you resent a place for any reason, others will pick up on that, and you will also go out of your way to pick out the worst in the city you are in, rather than looking for the good.  Just as you're more likely to ignore the negative things about the city you love and focus and the positive.

Ah, human nature, ain't it fun!

Wow... so many different points of view.

My take... I've lived in Texas, Arizona, New Jersey and now the DC area, and I have to say that based on my own experiences, I've found people in DC to be the most rude. But it's more like a passive-aggressive "I don't have the cajones to be full-out rude, I'll just make my displeasure known in semi-subtle ways." Like if someone bumps into you on the street, you won't get an NY-esque "Ey! Get outta my way ya freakin' MORON." It's more like pissy eye contact, a sullen glance, and the person mutters something under their breath just loud enough for you not to hear. Oh, and bike couriers seem to be personal emissaries of rudeness. Guess I'd be pissed if I was in my 30s and riding a bike for a living.

At the same time, it's interesting to hear about how some people thought people in SF were the epitome of rude. For whatever reason, I always associated people from the Bay Area as being courteous and generally chill. Guess there's two ways of looking at everything :)

One thing I like to do is play the door test. I was always brought up to hold the door open for people behind me (man or woman, young or old). I'd say nine times out of ten, when I'm behind someone heading into a building (and I know they've seen me ), they'll just open the door wide enough to let themselves in and let it slam on you. I don't think I've ever experienced that (often) in NJ or TX.

And to the person who said they don't give the right of way to pedestrians here... I think about once a week I can cross an intersection on foot and damn near be able to place my hand on the side of a car that's trying to make a turn and can't wait the 10 seconds for me to cross the street. Again, NJ has really stereotypically lousy drivers, but that never happened to me there.

Richard: I've always associated the British with being exceedingly polite, but then again, most of my contact has been at the professional level. Just out of curiosity, did you live in an area with a lot of chavs or yobs back in England? I could see how that might lead you to think people were ruder in the UK :) For those of you that don't know, chavs are the UK version of trailer trash, only on steroids (or so I hear from my UK contacts).

Whew! Okay, gotta calm down and have another glass of wine :) It's all good!

Jason - England is a country of yobs, a civilisation of yobbishness, and a future of destruction through yobs.  Can you avoid them?  Sure.  Can the country avoid the repercussions of them, not a chance.

When my Dad was here a few weeks back, he was telling me stories of certain things that were going on in the UK, the majority of which were Government 'incentives', but basically driven by the entitlement society that the UK has collapsed to.  I could write an entire thread about the painful stories he told, but one of my favorites (and a little off-topic about rudeness, but there were PLENTY of those stories too!):

We were on the Metro, and there was an advert in a station for sperm donors, I believe the payment was $100.  My Dad immediately said "You can't do that in the UK now!".  Puzzled by this statement, I asked him to elaborate.  Apparently, it is now illegal to pay someone in the UK to be a sperm donor.  That's not the odd part though.  By being a sperm donor, you must agree to the fact that the child is legally allowed to contact you at any point of your life.  Nope, that's not the weird part either.  If you donate your sperm in the UK, the mother 'using' this sperm is allowed to demand child support from you as the biological father.  I was dumbfounded.  He went on to tell us at least 15 or so stories of similar stupidity going on with government rulings.

The sad part of this  is that so many of these new laws in the UK are meant to 'protect' society, but actually eradicate the need for individual thought, responsibility, and ultimately, respect, and erode the very nature of a society (you can see why I was quite desperate to leave!).

OK, I veered off topic a little there, but again, I guess it does point to the generalizations; most people don't see the 'real' UK - hanging out in London is so far away from the representative nature of what is going on in that country, just as judging a city on whether they have bad drivers or people who bump into you in the street without giving a rat's ass doesn't represent the people of the city as a whole.

There are aspects of DC I don't like; the people I have met are not part of that - heck, the Yelpers I've met, at the many Yelp events - 95% of them are incredibly wonderful people, 5% of them I could have done without ever having met.  I could sit here and bitch about that 5%, or I could ignore that minority and focus on the wonderful majority, and that's what I do.  I love the fact that, for the most part, we can debate on these 'forums' about all sorts of issues, and everyone generally respects opinions of people who severely differ from them....

...I was a little dismayed to see Krista's comments above, as I think it's the first time I've ever witnessed that anger on a DC Talk thread - the threat to punch someone in the face has no place whatsoever in a civilized discussion.  Check out some of the Chicago threads - they are down-right mean and vindictive, and I'm talking the majority of them.  That, to me, is a sign of unfriendliness.  I love the fact that things are so open on these threads, and in my experience, that reflects DC as a whole.  People know that I can be a little outspoken, and I am probably in a distinct minority when it comes to my political, social and environmental views, but I always feel comfortable that I can talk about them on these threads without being victimized.  

I love this friendly DC, and I love this (99.99%) friendly DC Yelp - long may it last...

Richard, you inspire me.  I was initially not going to contribute to this thread, because honestly, I'm afraid of Krista.  But I do have something to add.

Any place is what you make it, whether intentionally or not -- as someone above implied, if you give off negativity like a cloud, people will respond negatively to it.  On the other hand, if you are friendly, people are generally friendly back.  I know this because I've been working on it for years -- I have always tended to be introverted and assumed other people wouldn't like me, and lo and behold, they often didn't.  

But if you go at people ASSUMING they are decent, and consider that they are assuming you don't like THEM, I have found people much more responsive and friendly. A smile, a funny observation, and even the surliest folks at the bus stop respond back in kind.

Similarly in cars -- I can be a very aggressive driver, and the more aggressive I am, the more I hate the drivers around me.  When I try to relax, and even (gasp!) be courteous to other drivers, they seem much less rude.  Did you know you can even make eye contact with other drivers and smile at them?  Yes, there are always the irretrievably rude people, but I try to just shake my head with amazement at how self-centered they are.

This is all just a kumbaya way of saying that, generally speaking, the world will reflect back what you put into it.

For all of you folks who have found DC to be hell on earth, I don't doubt your experiences. I just doubt that you are so unique that DC and its folks have *nothing* to offer you.

Now I cringe and wait to be attacked by that cute little white dog.

Mary Kay, nicely said as always.  I'll chime in as a DC area lifer.  This area is indeed a RUSH-RUSH, my-kid-is-going-to-a-better-school-than-yours type of place.  So, IN GENERAL, people in other places are more laid back. That's my direct experience pitting DC against, say, San Fran, or more especially, Northern Cal in general.  But, water always seeks its own level.  I have plenty of friends here who are laid back like me; who like to hike and bike like me and do other things we might not associate with city living.
  I love this area.  It is my home, and I live on a magical block right in the city, where all of us neighbors get together frequently.  It's the people you make an effort to befriend that make the difference.  DC, the same as San Fran or any other place on earth, can be a lonely place if no-one reaches out.  Forget the jerks, find the cool people who abound here and San Fran alike, and enjoy life.  I'm glad opinions have been expressed on all sides, and when I hear people have had bad experiences in "my home town" I get determined to right the wrongs.  There are good people here.  You just have to dodge the overstressed SUV drivers and snotty elitists to get to them :)

Steve,

I concur. Once I discovered you just gotta make the effort to actually find like-minded people, it makes all the difference.

Mary Kay: I actually had this epiphany about a year ago... the more anger I carried, the more I picked up that vibe from people around me (even if I was only stewing in my head). Once I decided that the bastards weren't gonna get me down and started to have a relaxed "don't sweat the small stuff" attitude, I noticed a marked difference in the people around me. Don't know if it's karma, positive energy, or what, but I just got so tired coming come from work and my commute seething about every little thing. Once I realized I was becoming the archtype of what I hated around here and realized that no one is responsible for my outlook on life but me, I became MUCH happier.

Slight threadjack: Thanks Richard for sharing your experiences. I initially thought the chav problem was overstated, but the more I learn about it and ASBO, the more I realize that it's a growing problem, one that the authorities don't seem much interested in solving. I've looked at several police websites in the UK, and they've got such a "human resources on steroids/let's everybody be happy and loved dovey" vibe, you'd be hard pressed to find out they do any actual policing. I've also heard that freaky sperm donor example too. Scary.

Though to turn even a bleak subject into a funny one, I now know what a Croydon facelift is :) Go chavs!

And WTF with that 5-post tirade?!?

Amy,

I lived in Central/Southern New Jersey (Toms River/Ocean County area), so yeah, there are some differences in living there than, say, Essex County or so. Things were a little bit more laid back where I lived.

Wow! So much passion!  I don't know what to say... there's a lot of good points.  It's easier to speak from one's own perspective, so here's the the things I personally like and dislike:

Uncommonly good DC Likes:

The parks here are incredible,  so are the museums.  Most people seem to take for granted how strange it is to have access to so many wonderful public works.  

The weather here is extremely mild.  I'd even call it strangly so (for the 2 years I've been here at least).  The summers and winters are nothing compared to the ones I experienced in Savannah and Buffalo.

There's lots of thing to do for free, and many of them can be reached via public transportation.  Perhaps more things than I could ever imagine elsewhere.

DC Specific Dislikes:

Actually, I'm gonna cut myself off here.  There's no point in complaining about things that can't be changed.

I just have to chime in:
I'm from the DC area and now live in Seattle and have ben all over the West Coast.

It's mostly a matter of opinion as to what's "rude" or polite: East Coast is a little more formally polite and aggressive driving isn't exactly encouraged, but it's a little more tolerated. On the East Coast, it's okay to have a debate with someone and still be friends with them. On the East Coast, if someone has a problem, they speak up about it.

On the West Coast, people seem to feel more entitled when driving, etc. People are less formally polite and slower to follow up on things (even in business), it's not considered polite to confront someone or speak up about a problem, rather, West Coast people (the Northwest more than California) tend to go around their problems and try to passively solve them.

Personally, I find more rudeness and inconsiderate service on the West Coast than I did back East but that's because of how I approach things. In DC, for example, if you feel you're not getting good service somewhere and speak up about it, the server doesn't want that negative attention and speeds it up (sometimes). Out West, if you hate the service and speak up, the server will most likely just take that much longer to wait on your table or, worse, start espousing the woes of having a service sector job looking for sympathy because they have yet to achieve their true aspirations in life.

As far as the traffic, etc: yeah, DC has traffic lights and stop signs that pop up in weird places. It's an easy city for out of towners to get lost in as well. Merging into traffic in the DC area is like trying to find a gap in the defensive line in football. One west coast innovation that would serve DC well is the one car per red/green cycle stop light at the exits regulating when people merge.

Not trying to argue, just pointing out differences. One thing about DC, though, unlike Seattle or San Francisco, if someone complains, people just accept your opinion and go on with life. Out here, don't dare utter an unkind word about Seattle or San Fran around a local unless you want to hear all of their propaganda about how you're wrong (see, they're both utopia, really).

I think people are, on the whole, lovely in DC. Most of my favourite experiences have been on public transport. For example, I was carrying a 40 lb TV table back from IKEA on the bus (because I'm a moron) and a lovely couple got off the bus before their stop just to help me carry it across 16th so that I could catch my transfer. Most people thank bus drivers when they get off the bus. Bus drivers greet you and tell you to have a nice day. People give up their seats for the elderly. The crazy drunk lady at the bus stop gave me advice about men.

Of course, I've had experiences with rude people too. An old lady called me a chink and a homeless guy yelled "Those girls are sluts! That Chinese girl sucks dicks!" at me and a friend, but I find that one kind of hilarious. To be honest, I'm sure there have been other rude people but I really don't remember them at all because I don't focus on them. I'm nice to people and people are nice to me. Could be because I don't walk around with some bizarre chip on my shoulder or any sort of expectation about how the world is supposed to treat me. My view is, you're not entitled to special treatment just by virtue of your existing, so when people are kind and polite, I notice it and remember it and it makes my day better.

Basically, harping on and on about how everything is miserable and trying to get other people to list horrible things about DC to affirm your viewpoint is completely unproductive. A lot of us are transplants. A lot of us are far away from our families and friends. But you know what? You suck it up and you deal with it because that's life. You find things to be happy about or you stay miserable.

This seems to have turned into a West Coast vs. East Coast thread, but I'd like to throw in my perspective as someone from "the Middle."

I grew up right outside of Chicago and moved here a few years ago on a on a whim, looking for something new. I love the fact that there are so many educated/career-minded people this way. Don't get me wrong, I love Chicago, I love the Midwest, but I felt like people looked at me like I was crazy when I didn't want to get married right after college and start a family, but instead wanted start climbing the ladder. Out here I was able to find a job at the snap of my fingers and the click of a mouse, where as I had been searching for months without even an interview at home, there's just so many more opportunities.

I also love the cultural diversity and well it is intertwined. At home neighborhoods are very segregated, you go to Greektown for Greek, you go to Northwest Indiana for Polish, but here I feel you see several cultures represented in the same neighborhood, right on the same block! For example: I never even tried Thai food until I moved out here, there wasn't a Thai restaurant in my area, I had to go downtown for it, and let's face it, if I'm going downtown Chicago, I'm going for pizza.

Yes, drivers are crazy and for some reason they refuse to merge correctly and instead stop on on/off ramps. Yes, I get strange looks sometimes when I try to talk to people while waiting in lines at the grocery store. But I have to tell you, I'm starting to feel like this his home.

--The Alexandrian girl with the South Side accent.

P.S. I should have signed it "Editor who can't edit today"   Cut me some slack on the grammar/ mis-wordings in there, I've been writing all day at work and I'm kind of burnt out. :-p

Here's a secret about DC:

It's okay to gripe about DC
People from DC gripe about DC
Griping, in DC is an art form. In fact, it's often seen as recreation.

My culture shock was bringing my critical, smartass DC attitude to Seattle, where everyone drinks the Space Needle Kool-aid, denies that there is anything bad about the place, and considers an unkind word about the city is as a personal offense to them.

Revel in your right to bitch about life in the nation's capital -- apparently, it's a freedom not enjoyed everywhere in the country.

I'm from DC, and it's a big city with all that goes with it, if you want mayberry......well enough said, it's not the worst, but you gotta work the system!

Concerning the Midwest.....I have taken several trips across this great country of ours...I've got to say that there are alot of ignorant and blindly racist folks that I've encountered throughout my cross-country trips...Man I could tell you all stories that would make you turn red with embarrasment(if you are white) or flush with anger(if you are not )......

Throughout all of my trips to The Bay Area no one has called me a spic,sand nigger,flip,chink or anyother racial slur; and that Is over the course of several years...But I cant say that about any other place that I have visited or lived in this country.....

Just sharing my experiences....

Lynn Said:

DC is not a great place to build long term friendships because people are not only transcient, but shrewdly evaluate your networking value before they invest in contact.  This is the only area of the country where inquiring about someone's "GS" is considered cocktail party chitchat, and one of the few places I've found where realtors don't budge on their 6% fees.
_______________________

Yikes, that's not my experience at all. I've got friends in DC I've known all my life, many of my parents' friends are folks they've known for close to 40 years, and both of our sets of our neighbors-- my parents' and mine from DC-- are people we know, love and are distinct parts of our lives. When folks in my parents' neighborhood move away they frequently stay in touch; last week I was just visiting with a woman who moved out of the house across from my parents' in 1984.

Sometimes I think people need to make a distinction between folks who COME here for work and folks who are FROM here. This is, of course, another vast over-generalization. However I find that most of my friends who are natives could give a shit about your GS level or who you know. Even if they work in government. Also, lots of my friends who are from here do things that maybe you don't run in to at places where people are trying to one up each other-- they're cooks, small business owners, moms, bankers, accountants, bartenders, car salesmen, waiters, artists, designers, writers, police, scientists, folks who work at nonprofits interested in serving the local community, and people who work in LOCAL government. As well as doctors, lawyers, secret service, state department,  and other federal government. I'm not saying there aren't self-centered, climbing folks in DC, god knows (or that all people who are from DC are great individuals), I just have to say that in my experience it's who you know and who you surround yourself with. And if who you surround yourself with is rude people who only want to know you for your worth to them, that's the experience you're going to have. And that's going to be true no matter what part of the country you're in.

Also, to stay on this response, I think it's so funny that your experience is people would rather be on their cell phones than greet you on the street. Last October I was in DC with some of my San Francisco co-workers. At some point my boss turned to me and said "I've never seen a person talk to so many people on the street as you do here! And since when is your favorite saying "hi, how y'all doing?" I hadn't thought about it until she pointed it out, but it's true, I talk to a ton more people here than on the street in SF (although I find Oakland decidedly more friendly than SF), which is just my normal DC self. I talk to EVERYONE-- doormen, valet folks, smoke breakers, folks standing at the corner-- anyone who's eye I catch. And I find just about all of them smile and talk back.

And just to clarify, I don't think everyone who comes to DC for work is going to be a self-centered jerk, either. Jerkdom, in my experience, happens around the world. I do think there are some jobs in DC that attract people that are very ambitious and can act the way Lynn suggested. But that isn't to say all jobs are like that, or all folks who move here fit that mold.

OK then. Just to be clear. I'd hate to offend the nice folks out there!

I was talking to some other "transplants" about the lack of coffeeshop hangouts in this area.  Where we were from, there were a lot of independent 24 hour coffeeshops around where you could go and get to know a lot of people.  There would be strangers around who were interested in grabbing a quick game of chess or getting into a philosophical conversation.  You could get to know all the people who spent time at a particular coffeeshop, and build a little community there.  

Do these places exist in this area?

Hi Lynn,

Yes, I think you're right. I'm sure my experience of DC and environs is a very different one from the experience of folks who are transplants-- for better and worse. Which is also, I guess, why I really take it to heart when people malign the area (not that you were)... it's like a slap in the face, since this city runs in my blood. I know there's crappy things about it, but I really think what people put out there is what they get back-- I know that was the case when I moved to California. While I'm from here a lot of my current local friends are not folks I grew up with, since a lot of those people moved away for college and whatnot. But perhaps because I have a basic, like DNA level comfort and feeling of rootedness here it's easier for me to be comfortable seeking out the folks and things I like, and not letting the folks and things I don't like interfere with my daily experiences. Anyhow, point being-- not all of us Washingtonians are rude, mean people who drive backwards on the freeway, people!!

OK, just my two cents sticking up for my hometown. :-)